postlaestadianrevival

When I was attending the OALC they taught that there were periods of history when true Christianity appeared on the earth. (There was always a remnant of believers who carried the power to testify sins forgiven, but they were sort of underground in between these periods.) The four living creatures in Revelation 4:6-7 was a prophecy of these periods of dispensation, I was taught. The Lion represented the apostolic period of Christianity, the second (the ox or calf) represented the time of Jan Hus in Prague. The third, the face of a man represented living Christianity in Martin Luther's time, (this period lasted about the life span of a man) and finally the eagle represents our time when the true faith began in northern Europe and was transported to the United States of America.

Imagine my shock and confusion when I read Ezekiel chapter 1, and saw the same thing described in much more vivid detail and read "This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. When I saw it, I fell face down and I heard the voice of one speaking."

It was a representation of GOD?

I don't recall hearing that particular teaching, but it doesn't surprise me. Usually some preacher who is a little more interested in the Bible comes up with something that sounds scholarly, so they hook up their disjointed teachings to some part of Scipture and never bother to take it in context or compare it to the rest of the related passages in the Bible. They could not give you a comprehensive view of end time events if their lives depended on it. What disturbed me more than anything was their lack of understanding of The Revelation and their total apathy about it.

What I heard in my church was that the 6 seals in Revelation were the different periods of dispensation, or visitations of the Holy Spirit, with the 6th being Laestadius' period. He even has a big sermon on Rev 6:12-13, and of course, that story about the earthquake happening when someone testified Lapp Mary's sins forgiven was all the supporting evidence they needed for THAT to be true. It is all so very silly in the light of the rest of the Bible, but like someone said on this forum, they take what they believe and twist the Scriptures to fit it. Since they are so Biblically-illiterate, it all sounds fine to them!

Correction: I forgot the real story about Lapp Mary, who taught Laestadius some stuff he didn't realize before. It was some other woman who had her sins testified forgiven; I don't remember if it was by Laestadius or Raattamaa. (As if it matters....)

I think it was Raatama who testified sins forgiven to a woman. It is on one of the web sites listed under the Lap Mary topic. And I think it was after Laestadius died. It is in one of Rataama's letters.

But like you say it doesn't matter except to those who believe it is significant. If they are believing a lie, I would like to make it know so that they can find truth.

Soapbox wrote:
But like you say it doesn't matter except to those who believe it is significant. If they are believing a lie, I would like to make it know so that they can find truth.

Are you saying it's a lie to tell a repentant sinner they can believe the Gospel that they are forgiven in the name of Jesus Christ? The Apostles testified by the spoken word to unbelievers that sins are forgiven in His name(Acts 10:43, 13:38 ) and assured believers the same (1 John 2:12), so why can we not tell the same to a sinner or believer today?

Actually the lie I was referring to was the lie that Leastadius' had his sins testified forgiven by a woman named Lap Mary and became a Christian. The historical record does not bear this out. My sources are cited under the section on Lap Mary but I will post them a gain here:

www.apostolic-lutheran.org/history/introduction.html (Page 4)

http://users.erols.com/ewheaton/laest1.htm (page 28 )

Thanks for the clarification. I had heard about her real name being Milla Clementsdotter. Seems maybe her nickname was Lap Mary. That is the way I have understood this.

Soapbox wrote: My sources are cited under the section on Lap Mary but I will post them a gain here:

www.apostolic-lutheran.org/history/introduction.html (Page 4)

http://users.erols.com/ewheaton/laest1.htm (page 28 )

Oh yes, these two sites. I have the first one from the ALCA printed out for reference. The other one I have visited from time to time. I have never been to an OALC congregation, but seems they are much more caught up in rules and control than the other groups.

I could not tell you if that is true or not since I know very little about the other laestadian groups. I had the impression that each one thinks that their own group is the only true church....anyone know if this is true?

Since Laestadians are all taught that there is only one true church, which they literally believe is one body of believers who all gather together for corporate worship and have the same leaders, they must therefore believe that THEIR group is THE right one. I don't believe any of them embrace the idea that there is salvation in the other Laestadian groups, but I have heard of some believing that friends/relatives in another group may possibly have gone to heaven when they died. (generous, huh?!)

As I believe someone has already pointed out on this forum, the Book of The Revelation states that in heaven there will be people from EVERY kindred and tongue and people and nation worshiping before the throne.
Somehow, that wouldn't be probable if the true church was limited to Laestadians! At least 75% of the Laestadians I know are Scandinavians. The other 24.99% would be of other European nationalities. Racism is very overt and I don't believe I ever heard it preached against.

To me, that passage is key to understanding what the true church of Jesus Christ is all about: those who worship Him in sincerity and truth, a body of believers that encompasses the globe. We are the gift that the Father has presented to His Son. (John 6:37-44) We are the beautiful bride of Jesus Christ!!!

I know the passage in Revelation. It makes it sound like many thousands or even millions of true Christians. Has the OALC not done much mission work? The Laestadian Lutheran Church has been doing work in South America and Africa. Something else that has bothered me with the LLC(and most likely the OALC) is their insistence on being with them, having to be where you meet with them. I am reminded how Jesus condemned such a thing of just visiting among yourselves. Remember how Jesus was condemned for sitting with sinners? I think my friends think I"m "odd" for not being so concerned with living in a place with a Laestadian congregation. Does anyone relate to this?

One comment about what you said last: the danger of not living where there is an established Laestadian church is that you might start thinking for yourself ("using your intellect"), hearing other preaching, and learning things other than what is taught in "the church". From my experience, to keep on believing like they do requires a constant infusion of the same old doctrine. If you keep getting that, even your Bible reading can be distorted. Without it, the Holy Spirit has more free reign to shape one's thinking and actually allow a person to question the errors they have been taught.

I am surprised that there are Laestadian congregations that actually do real missions! The OALC & others I know of call some of their meetings "missionary", but it is nothing more than 1) elders from the church in Swedish Lapland who come and preach to their own members in many congregations across the US & Canada, and 2) certain preachers from the US going to various regions & holding meetings for their own members. The only outreach into the community would be to post a little notice in the newspaper & (if someone would be VERY daring & ambitious) make & put up a few flyers on bulletin bds. Sometimes the meetings are held in public bldgs such as schools, & some newspapers have published articles about the big crowds that gather. Some people invite their neighbors/acquaintances, which I felt obligated to do.

I have to say that I was secretly bothered by our lack of outreach to the world at large. If we claimed to have THE EXCLUSIVE TRUTH, being THE ONLY CHURCH, why were we keeping it to ourselves? That direct command of Jesus just before His ascension: "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel" didn't seem to be getting done...And no one seemed the least bit bothered by it!

Another thing that I found disturbing was that we as a church did not reach out to the "down & outers" in society. We only took care of our own, but it seemed like we had a greater responsibility than that. For that reason, I did not give a full tithe to the church. Part of it went to Christian organizations that helped orphans, who are as dear to my heart as they are to the heart of God.