postlaestadianrevival

My roots is the Laestadian movement go back a long way. My grandfather and great grandfathers were both preachers in that church. In the OALC a Laestadius sermon was read every Sunday in church. I am not sure there was ever a time when the Laestadian movement was not legalistic. They have certainly split many times, each side of the split deems the other heretical, and non-Christian and communication between the two groups comes to an end.

In bygone years, curtains were taught to be sin as were dryers with windows in the door.
I heard of a woman in South Dakota who wall papered her living room by hanging the wallpaper backwards, ( design side facing the wall) and of women who were rebuked for having plants in the house. These are things that happened a long time ago--a hundred years or more. Legalism was alive and well less than fifty years after Laestadius death, and I suspect was there initially as well.

Laestadius sermons themselves have a dark side. Have you ever had the opportunity to read them? You may be les inclined to defend him if you do.

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Legalism is more than a misunderstanding of Christian doctrine--it is in direct opposition to it.

It is desecrating the work of Christ on the cross.

It is setting up an idol in the temple of God.

Certainly sounds different from the Laestadians I know. The ones I've been with don't read his sermons, maybe make a reference once in a while. They haven't preached against curtains or dryers or wallpaper. I have never heard a perfect sermon and I wouldn't say the sermons of Laestadius or anybody are perfect or without something with which I may disagree. I read where Laestadius considered the Baptists to have a better understanding of grace than the Lutheran church of his day, but I wonder if he would say the same about the movement named after him today, if it has the correct understanding of grace. Of course, if we are going to measure one's status or salvation by a code based on a single interpretation of scripture, then something is wrong and grace is no longer in the place it deserves.

Soapbox wrote: Laestadius sermons themselves have a dark side. Have you ever had the opportunity to read them? You may be les inclined to defend him if you do.

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Legalism is more than a misunderstanding of Christian doctrine--it is in direct opposition to it.

It is desecrating the work of Christ on the cross.

It is setting up an idol in the temple of God.

I agree here about legalism, Christian doctrine and Christ's work and I am willing to put Laestadius and those preachers with whom he was in contact to the test. I'll put any preacher or Christian person's opinion to the test with an open Bible. It's a very Christian thing to do. We are admonished to prove all things. I suppose if you heard his sermons regularly, you may have noticed things which I have not, since I have never heard his sermons. If I have my understanding correct, the OALC and it's related group in Sweden has a very different view of Laestadius than most or all other Laestadian groups....like he was an angel or something like this, a position I am at ease to reject. Considering your much longer connection than mine, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt regarding Laestadius. I was thinking about something: Maybe one reason all the legalism came about was because they needed to find more laws to break in order to formulate sins and hear again the forgiveness of sins. I don't know if they actually sat down and said let's invent some things to break so we can confess more, but I think you see my point. I am just getting this impression. Maybe it's true, I don't know. I can understand why there are concerns about certain things like dressing modestly or TV(there is lot of anti-biblical programming on TV no doubt and I have my own set of standards based on scripture to determine what I watch and I could easily live without TV, but I don't impose this on others). The peace and joy that comes with knowing forgiveness is great, but we need to be careful to not go back to feelings or inventing things in order to get more feelings but stand on the promises of God's word and Christ's finished work. There are some pentecostal groups like this, but it's more a test of holiness or keeping one's salvation instead of confessing sins. I have come from a very different path in life than many or most here, so I apologize for any confusion.

Faithful, you make me laugh! But I understand the point you are making of seeking an emotional experience, needing the feelings...kind of an emotional addiction.

But as you have said elsewhere on this site, it is not about feelings. We don't play the central role in our salvation, Jesus does.

I was thinking more on this. I am not here to make fun of anybody. Afterall, I have close friends who are Laestadians and some have quite a devotion to God and live good lives and have been among the nicest people to me and I don't take much issue with their preaching forgivenss(although I see a major shift to works and experience in the OALC as opposed to the Laestadian Lutheran Church and the Independents and I suppose this is why the OALC was rejected because of what sounds like compulsory confession and naming of sins). But this aside, the devil is quick to throw a newly freed person into doubt and worry and all kinds of traps...thus, all kinds of things becoming "wrong" and "sinful" thus wondering if you are really saved and then needing to again start over with hearing the elementary aspects of the New Testament(forgiveness of sins), especially if they are not literate in all the Bible. IT IS IMPORTANT TO READ THE BIBLE! This is God's sure word to us and the most powerful weapon against the devil and all his empty promises. Let me share: Once I thought I'd fallen beyond repair and I was hell bound and the devil game me the idean"You are not worthy to read the Bible and find out if you have fallen beyond recovery." Well, somehow I managed to push through such doubt and I had the most memorable transformation. It was like a personal pentecost. I think many Laestadians need to know more of God's promises besides just forgiveness so that when the devil comes along they can rebuke him and stand on all of the promises God has for us. I think this is how it all took ahold, this legalism and all the bondage..just more bondage to keep them in an elementary understanding, getting stuck on just one promise, forgiveness, instead of moving beyond that. A couple of the Apostolic groups are knowledgable enough to know having a TV or cable is not a sin(afterall, if you prohibit the TV, why not the computer?). Just some sharing here of my journey.

I did not mean to imply that you were making fun of anyone, nor do I want to do that myself. When I said you made me laugh it was intended as a compliment. You have a very refreshing way of putting things, and I enjoy reading your posts.

Like you, I have very good friends who are following Laestadius (mine in the OALC as you know) and I do not want to be disrespectful of them. I only wish they would pick up a bible and read it! Discover the other 99 million plus things God is and does. Sometimes I get discouraged about it, they are so stubborn. Asking them to a bible study is a waste of breath. They have everything they need, they say. They are missing so much, how can I make them see? I keep trying to nurture the friendships, trying to keep the door open, and they are trying to get away from me and slam the door shut...!

Ok, thanks for that. I am glad to sound refreshing even though I am recovering from being sick. Sorry to hear how you are rejected. I cannot comprehend this, although I can't hide my non-Laestadian connections forever. I have read the the stories here and I am grieved. The Laestadian Lutherans almost seem "liberal." But what grieves me is to think someone told you that your sins are forgiven, but then says don't do this, don't do that or else you are now an unbeliever and need to be forgiven again, etc. I have just been listening to a good preacher on CD and laughing. I loved when he talked about a church janitor and such a "lowly" position doesn't mean you are just a poor ole janitor...it's a calling. He said even the church janitor could have a jet and travel around to share the Gospel. And I am a church janitor..lol. God can prosper the janitor just as much as the pastor or traveling evangelist! Will I be a flying janitor, cleaning people's lives up instead of polishing floors and pews? Who knows. All things are possible with God. A janitor might have a "lowly" position in modern money-hungry status-driven society, but Jesus says the last will be first!;)

Regarding Bible study: I invited some Laestadian Lutheran folks to my home for a service, since there was no local congregation. Anyway I was expressing the distances from them and being isolated(this is when I thought they were the only valid Christians), and so I told this one man, the one who preached in my home, how I have been reading the Bible and so forth and he actually said something negative about it. I can't remember what, but it just really disappointed me. It was like the total opposite of what happened to me alone with the Bible in my college dorm. Imagine, nobody else was in that dormitory and I felt so lost spiritually and the devil was attacking me horribly, I coud not even sleep at night for fear of dying and going to hell. This was severe is all I can say and had it not been for a miracle, I went beyond the devil's doubts(you sinned and are not worthy to read the Bible) and studied the scriptures and was released of my doubts and went from despair to certainty, from torment to joy. It almost sounds like a Laestadian experience. But compare that to what that preacher who came to my home said. I think this is why I was grieved. They think the Bible is quite useless by itself. I will have to look, but I think I read once where one of them said it is just a dead letter or something. Don't quote me on this, but something to this effect comes to my mind. Or maybe you know of this also? Ever heard of this teaching, that God's word is just a dead letter without another believer or something to this effect?

Hi Faithful!
I don't believe that the OALC Laestadians have expressed the bible to be a dead letter, but they do not believe that anyone besides their own preachers can rightly interpret it. They do not encourage bible study. Many of the children grow up without ever hearing of Samson, David, Daniel, or Ruth. It is sad. Fortunately my family wasn't afraid of the bible. When I became an adult and started to question some things I decided in my heart that I wouldn't believe church teachings if it wasn't confirmed in the bible. I believe that you said you came to the same sort of conclusion yourself in another post.

Your upper room experience sounds like a wonderful miracle of God. How good He is to us! He will never leave us or forsake us. No one can snatch us from his hand. Hallelujah!

I am glad you see the value in being a janitor. The president can take a two week vacation and no one notices. But if the janitor or garbage man takes two weeks off ...things get ugly right away. (smelly too.)

Sorry to hear that you were sick...hope you are on the mend.

Hi Soapbox. Yes, I am on the mend. I said last night "I refuse to let this sickness travel any further into my respiratory system!" Amen! I just had the average cold.