postlaestadianrevival

We can forgive the sins of others--the sins committed against ourselves. If someone steals our car,we can decide to forgive the person who stole it and make other arrangements for transportation at out own expense.

We cannot forgive a thief for stealing our neighbor's car, but our neighbor can. He is the one who suffered the loss. What would he say if he came home, found his car stolen and you told him, don't worry I told the thief you had forgiven him! Likewise, it is not in our power to forgive sins committed against God. Only He can do that.

Let's stretch the analogy even further. Pretend that someone stole your car. Your neighbor told the thief that he/she was forgiven AND replaced your car with a new one. Would that be a rough sketch of what Jesus did for us?

The victim of the crime would be like God... the forgiving and replacing neighbor would be Jesus, and we would be the thief...

And the thief gets adopted into the victim's family and also becomes his heir.

That is the grace of God.

There is such a huge emphasis on the forgiveness of sins in the
Laestadian churches. The ceremony/ritual has taken on a life of
its own since it is exclusive to these churchees. Some people
are so confused about its importance that they equate Jesus
with the forgiveness of sins.

What they don't realize is that they are worshiping an attribute of
God rather than God Himself.

One of big lies they teach is that you can't go directly to God to
get your sins forgiven; you have to go to another brother or sister
in (their same) faith & confess your sins to them & believe when
they testify that God has forgiven them. That is so close to what
Catholics believe, only they substitute a priest for the confessor.

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is the mediator between us and
the Father. We who are His children have full access to Him and to
His mercy and grace. When we are saved, our debt of sin--past,
present, AND FUTURE-- is totally cancelled!

I think that is what Jesus was pointing out to Peter when He told
him, "A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet;
his whole body is clean." John 13:10 NIV. We still need to go to
Jesus to confess & receive forgiveness of our sins after we have
been saved, but that is the washing of our feet. It is not some
merit badge for salvation that we might have to relinquish if we
mess up later.

Of course, when we sin against our neighbor in any way, we should
go & correct that matter with them. That is clearly taught in the
Scriptures.

Free at last, I think you are right about people equating the forgiveness of sins with Jesus. That is what I did. Because it was supposed to be Jesus who saved us but since it was obvious that forgiveness ritual was what saved us in the church was the only true Christianity they must be the same thing...

What pretzels we twist our minds into when we try to make what is false match up with what is true!

Thank God I am free from all that now!

So what do we do with Apostle James telling us to confess faults to one another. Also there are examples of people confessing sins and giving assurance of forgiveness. The Apostles did it. Jesus ordained it. Why opt for something different? As so I confess the Laestadian understanding of repentance and the forgiveness of sins. And there is a world of difference between the Laestadian understanding and Roman Catholicism....a very big difference. Strictly speaking if one came up to me with a troubled conscience, as an orthodox Roman Catholic, I'd have to refer them to a priest to get spiritual counsel and assurance of forgiveness upon repentance. This is not according to scripture, since in Scripture, any believer can help a repenting sinner, using words like those of the Apostles "Your sins are forgiven for His name sake."

Free at Last wrote:What they don't realize is that they are worshiping an attribute of
God rather than God Himself.

Not necessarily. God the Father sent Jesus to preach liberation and forgiveness. Later he tells the disciples to do the same(As the Father sent me, so I send you...) and the Apostles obeyed as is evidenced in Acts and the Epistles. So to do the same is to be obedient to God and thus worshipping Him and not worshipping any attribute. That's my view anyway, for what it's worth.

Bookworm wrote: Likewise, it is not in our power to forgive sins committed against God. Only He can do that.

I tend to see this differently. Sin is like illness. If I am sick, I confess this to a doctor to get help. Of course, some folks reject doctors and I see no scriptural warrant for this. Same with sins on the conscience. If I am troubled by temptation or the devil's doubts, I can get counsel from fellow believers. And like with the doctors, there is no scriptural warrant to reject fellow believers for such counsel. On the contrary "Confess your faults one to another and pray for one another that ye may be healed," and "Your sins are forgiven for His name sake."

Faithful Remnant, I am so glad you are here...nothing like a good honest questioning of another's assertions to help us all think better and hopefully get closer to the truth of God.

Confession of sin is not wrong, it is not useless, and as you pointed out it is biblical. I do think it is erroneous to think we are not saved unless we confess our sins. We are saved by faith. Faith in what? Faith that Jesus did what the bible said he did, that is, he died on the cross for our sins and rose again on the third day. Before he laid down his life he said "it is finished." I understand that to mean that the work of salvation for all of mankind was finished. He did it all. Believing that is saving faith.

Awareness of sin and confession of sin are a result of faith.

I had trouble keeping that straight. I thought confession and remorse for my sins is what made me a Christian, not the works of Christ. Leaving the OALC and getting good bible teaching helped me to sort this out.

Thanks. I see your point. I understand some have made this into an act of salvation. I do reject that as well. Salvation comes to any who believe. I like to do it the Acts 1043 way.
Sorry to intrude here but thanks for welcoming me. Having read your other posts and those of others, it seems the OALC preaches forgiveness but then puts a yoke on you.

Please tell me what the Acts 10:43 way is!

To him all the prophets give witness that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

So it is my duty as a Christian to assure any believer and repenting sinner that their sins are forgiven in Jesus name just as the Apostles preached. The one who believes this receives what is promised. The form of preaching forgiveness is free. Nathan tells David "The Lord has taken away your sin," Jesus says "Be of good cheer, your sins are forgiven," and the Apostles say "Through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins," and "Your sins are forgiven for His name sake." And of course Acts 10:43 also.

To him all the prophets give witness that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

I believe this is Peter, preaching at Conelius' house. Staring with verse 39, I will paraphrase what he says We witnessed (Jesus) in Jerusalem and the surrounding areas, (Jesus) was hanged on a tree, God raised him from the dead, and (Jesus) was seen on the third day. He was not seen by everybody, but by witnesses God had chosen--by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead--He (Jesus) commanded us to preach to the people and tell them he is the one God appointed as judge of the living and dead. All of the prophets (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea etc...) tell about him, that everyone who believes in his name will have forgiveness of sins.

Peter is telling of what he saw with his own eyes, much like a witness in a court trial does. He says Jesus told them to preach that he (Jesus) was appointed as judge--and that all the prophets were telling about him, (Jesus.) They are to preach that everyone who believes in Jesus will receive their sins forgiven.

I understand this to be the gospel message, the great commission, the call to evangelize. It is a call to tell about Jesus' life, death, resurrection, how the prophets foretold these events and what these events mean. (All who believe on the name of Jesus will be saved--forgiven--have remission for their sins.)

I do not see any indication in the text that narrows it down to simply testifying to a repentant sinner that his/her sins are forgiven in the name of Jesus.

"All who believe" requires only believing.

Soapbox wrote:They are to preach that everyone who believes in Jesus will receive their sins forgiven.


I do not see any indication in the text that narrows it down to simply testifying to a repentant sinner that his/her sins are forgiven in the name of Jesus.

"All who believe" requires only believing.

I can agree, but not to rejecting the other scriptures which record a preaching of forgiveness and confessing faults and sins to one another(Nathan and David, Acts 1338 1 John 212 James, etc.). I can promise a sinner or troubled saint that upon their faith and repentance the Lord has taken away their sins in the name of Christ, through his name and for his name sake. This is glorious news to tell. People who truly believe and are concerned with their relationship with God should be quick to confess their faults and to tell others that through Jesus Christ there is forgiveness of sins. What is your take on churches who tell people they are saved and forgiven after saying what is often referred to as the sinners prayer? I was brought up pentecostal and basically thought the way to get saved was to pray this prayer. I thought I could sin one moment, say the prayer and be saved again, and again. What a ritutal! And and unscriptural one too. You are right about "All who believe," however, if they don't hear what they should believe, they won't know what to believe, namely that in Jesus Christ they are forgiven. As the Apostle Paul says "How can they believe if they don't hear?" So it goes that is is urgent to preach repentance and the remission of sins as Christ wanted (Luke 24:47) If there is no preaching the name of Jesus and repentance and forgiveness in His name, there will be no faith and no forgiveness, because faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Furthermore it is Christ's command to preach repentance and forgiveness of sins.

Hi Faithful! I have a little time to try to respond to some of your posts.

First let me quote: "All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

I do not reject any scripture, and I do not want to read into it something that is not there. To me it seems that you are reading something into it that I am not seeing. Can you please post the bible passages you are referring to and explain what they mean to you and how you believe that they are to be applied in the Christian's life?

Sure. Not a problem. And amen to 2 Tim. 3. I quoted it on another of the threads here(the finding a church thread, I think).

Ok, here ya go.....

2nd Samuel 12:13: “Nathan replied, ‘The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die.’(If you read 2nd Samuel 12:1-13, David committed sin, he confessed his sin to Nathan, and was declared forgiven with the most wonderful words: ‘The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die.’

Isaiah 6:7: "thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged."(The angel preaches forgiveness to Isaiah. Isaiah first confessed his woeful condition but then the angel brought a coal from the altar and says the sin is purged. )


Luke 24:47 "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name."(Jesus ordains that sins are to be preached forgiven in His name. You simply preach to the sinner to repent and that his sins are forgiven in Jesus’ name.


Acts 13:38: “Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:” (So by Jesus’ name is the forgiveness of sins preached. ) To say the same today is to be in accord with the Gospel.

1st John 2:12 "I write unto you little children, because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake." Apparently there is nothing wrong with assuring believers their sins are forgiven.