postlaestadianrevival

Born and raised in the IALC. Confirmed and all. Really only in it due to my family. Finally had the guts to leave in my late 20's; around 1997.

Luckily, my family allowed me to have a life outside the church so the transition was easy. My brother left a couple of years ago. Only my parents are left. I admit I feel bad for them but they act like everything is good.

I always heard of other groups that broke off but never had any detail until I found all the info on the net.

From what I read about all these different Laestedius groups, they are very similar. As difficult as it is for me to believe, the IALC group seems the most "liberal". Of course no dancing or drinking but tv, music, sports, movies were ok. But the rejoicing was very typical. I used to have nightmares as a kid remembering the screams. Still sends chills down my spine.

I admit the 20+ years has made a religious impression on me. I still retain some of the views taught. But I will never return.

Not sure what the church is like today but I noticed a facebook page for ialc and it seemed different than in my day.

I could go on and on but wanted to just say hi. Seems like ialc church is not represented much on these post lastadian sites.

If anyone wants ialc info, I can probably provide some. If any ialc members are thinking they want to move on with their life, I can provide some support.

Take care.

Hi,
Thanks for posting. I was considering becoming part of the IALC, since it seemed more independent instead of centralized like the LLC. I envisioned each congregation and member had more freedom over their life and direction, since it was the Independent Apostolic Lutheran Church. When I think if the term "Independent," I think of more self-determination and individual freedom and variety from one congregation to the next and not so much central control. Is this true to you? Thanks again for posting.

I was always told the name of church was unimportant. IALC only has a name because any church has to have an official name. Therefore, IALC is the reluctant name.

Hard to say if it is more independent than the LLC. Not much knowledge of LLC. However, from what I read on the net, IALC seems more liberal.

I think each congregation believes the same fundamental interpretations of the Bible. I believe the elders meet to discuss but I am not sure. The speakers all travel to the different churches as requested.

I assume all the Laestadian churches do the "cold" reading approach. IALC definitely does. Very very long sermons. I describe services like a church marathon. Especially the Labor Day services.

As far as freedom, I think you can do just about any job within the IALC. Education isn't frowned on either. They definitely caution you about relationships with worldly people.

Women and men can dress like anyone else and wear makeup or get their hair done. But your not supposed to drink, dance, gamble, play cards. I know of some people that do not watch movies or tv. But it isn't required. Sports are OK.

I haven't been for over ten years but I think it has turned more liberal since I was a member.

Hope it answers your question. I have no real ill will toward the ialc. It just wasn't my thing.

Thanks. It answers my question to some extent.

Hello, msukc! Thanks for sharing your story. I don't know much about your former religion, but was in 2 different laestadian groups over a period of many many years. I am curious about a few things: are Laestadius' sermons read in the meetings? Are any of the preachers taught in seminaries, or are they all lay preachers? Is there any affiliation with groups in Scandinavia? Do they practice a ritual of person-to-person confession/forgiveness of sins? Do they believe there is salvation outside of their religion? Do they hold meetings around St. John's Day (June 24th)? Do they hold confirmation classes for kids like most Lutheran churches do? What are the Sunday School classes for kids like? Do they offer adult Sunday School? Do they greet one another with "God's peace"? Are most of the members of Scandinavian heritage? Do any still speak Finnish or Swedish?

It is interesting to compare the various splinter groups to see which characteristics they retain.

Wow. Lots of questions free. In a nutshell, IALC doesn't recognize Laestadius. I never heard of the guy until I came across it on wiki when googling the ialc. There was talk occasionally of other groups but only older members knew specifics. It was never formally discussed or taught. I thought my whole life in IACL (until I was 28) that we were the only group that believed the way we did. Very lonesome existence when I look back at it.

Now to the quesitons, I will number them:

Insider view of the IALC:
1. are Laestadius' sermons read in the meetings? No.
2. Are any of the preachers taught in seminaries, or are they all lay preachers? No. They are all lay speakers (that is how they are referred). They are selected by the members (or they believe by God).
3. Is there any affiliation with groups in Scandinavia? No, but there are a lot of Finns in ialc.
4. Do they practice a ritual of person-to-person confession/forgiveness of sins? A little fuzzy on this one. I think it is optional but every "believer" can forgive another sins. Not sure how specific you need to be when doing so. I never confessed to another during my time and was never questioned about it.
5. Do they believe there is salvation outside of their religion? No. IALC are the lucky ones chosen by God. Talk about a jackpot!
6. Do they hold meetings around St. John's Day (June 24th)? Apparently not since I never heard of St. Johns Day.
7. Do they hold confirmation classes for kids like most Lutheran churches do? One week on confirmation during the summer when you are around 12 or 13.
8. What are the Sunday School classes for kids like? No such thing.
9. Do they offer adult Sunday School? No.
10. Do they greet one another with "God's peace"? Greeted with "God's greetings" and leave saying "God's Peace" both while shaking hands. Of course its "cool" to say it in Finnish.
11. Are most of the members of Scandinavian heritage? Yep. Finns
12 . Do any still speak Finnish or Swedish? No. Just a few words of Finn. Swedish presence in the church is nil.

Good questions.

Thanks for the info, Msukc! How fascinating that the only things the IALC seemed to retain from the original traditions of Laestadianism is the "Jumalan terve(tta)/Jumalan rauhaa" greeting, lay preachers, and the hallucination of being God's only chosen ones! (There may be other things that I didn't ask about, but I think I hit the highlights.)

Oh, I am guessing that the preachers do not prepare their sermons ahead of time, right? Would long, boring, rambling sermons filled with cliches and same-old, same-old be the usual? Do the most popular preachers incorporate a strong emotional appeal in their messages?

Is there any musical accompanyment with hymn singing? Is playing musical instruments allowed?

Are there a lot of these congregations across the USA? Do you have any idea how many members there are?

In my study, if I remember right, the IALC folks are called "evangelicals" by the LLC, maybe because they don't require confession before the congregation in order to be saved or something and just believing the message of Jesus Christ and that whoever believes receives forgiveness of sins through his name. They also believe that once a person is saved, that person is saved for eternity and cannot lose salvation(considered a heretical position by the LLC and probably another reason they were labeled evangelical for having such faith that the Gospel can save eternally). I am not sure on the musical accompaniment, but maybe msukc can help on that. I am happy to be in a more "mainline" Lutheran church now...no more legalism and we cooperate with other churches for mission and benevolence, and more space for individuals to be free in how they interpret the Bible, and the written Scriptures alone are God's word instead of believers' opinions and the preachers' words. We have the true faith, but we aren't the only ones who have it.

More answers to some interesting questions:

Prepared sermons? No preparation. Here is how a service proceeds.

Sing some songs from the songs for believers three ring binder book. It is a maroon color. All the songs are sung at a low and incredibly slow pace. Everyone pretends (at least I did) to enjoy these "fun" songs. I think if you can spend a large portion of your life enduring this torture, you earned your way to heaven by default alone. Anyone can call out a song number they want to sing and hear.

Then someone ruins this fun by selecting a hymn. This is usually even slower and another octave lower. It is in very poor taste to be labeled as a someone that selects only hymns.

After the hymn, it is revealed to all which random spot in the bible we get to hear. This is the "food" we get to receive. It take long to just read the passage from the bible. No one really understands this part due to the king james verbage recited. But hey this is God's work. What can you do?

One more song and then it is on. Sermons last between 30 minutes (rare) to 2 hours. Speakers do not take credit for the sermon because God speaks thru them. For some reason, each speaker retains there own style and catch phrases.

Long boring sermons? you betcha. Lots of repeated phrases like "Jesus Christ and Him Crucified" "Hang on not much longer" "Don't take your faith for granted brothers and sisters" etc

Popular speakers emotional appear? Lots of tears during some of them. Sometimes the speakers yell. I have to admit some of these guys are very good speakers. Although some are real lame.

Musical accompany? No. Never. For some reason it is OK to learn to play an instrument but not in church.

The more I right this stuff the more bizarre it feels.

I loved the humble attempt with the IALC but the judgmental, legalistic, loneliness of it all just doesn't feel right.


FaithRemnat - never knew that the LLC thought of us as evangelicals. I also never knew about the LLC. Not sure about this once saved, a person is saved for eternity thing. I was always told that once you stopped believing, you go to hell. For example, you could believe your entire life (of course never really believe you believe, rather, believe that you are just a poor believer lucky that Jesus died for your sins) and then stop believe minutes or seconds prior to death, and you go to hell. Vice versa is true. Go your whole life without believing and then say "Jesus Christ and your sins forgive" and believe those words and you are all set.

done with ramblin for now.

Love the questions and discussion.

Msukc,
Thanks. Maybe I have some of this wrong or maybe the LLC(Laestadian Lutheran Church) has thwarted the history for its own gain. The opinions from one campe towards another make one very confused as to who is telling the truth of their history and why so and so departed to start a new church.

Long sermons? No music? Hmm...sounds like a rigid interpretation of the Bible imposed on the people. I wouldn't last there as I did not last in the LLC for similar reasons even though the LLC allows instruments. Thanks again for writing.

You are welcome faithfulremnant. Not sure you have your history wrong. From my own experience, IALC doesn't really mention the other groups often. Only thing important to the IALC is the word of god (via the king james bible). What other churches do, or other people in the world for that matter do, does not matter. Being concerned about these kind of things would be spiritually risky in an IALC eyes; losing their focus on god.

Long sermons are an understatement. These guys love the sound of their own voice. They may say the are reluctant speakers but you could never tell. I remember as a kid, our regular speaker said when he was a young man another speaker said "Jesus Christ and Him Crucified!!". And that was the entire sermon. The point, in his opinion, was that was all a believer really needed to know. For me, it was hope that one day someone would duplicate that sermon. Unfortunately, that never happened. I think the shortest sermon was maybe 15-20 minutes. The usual was an hour to an hour and a half.

As for music, I believe it was really frowned upon when my mom played the piano 30-40 years ago and studied it in school. And I am talking about outside the church. However, they have really loosened up on the extra curricular stuff. But you can still sense some people/families frown on it. I don't think the members are as confrontational now.

Why you can sing but not play an instrument in the church is beyond me. I know that are trying to keep the focus on god and not an instrument. But it is a little odd when you think about it.

Thinking about why things are the way they are is another thing they frown on. From what I read on the net, all the Laestadian groups agree on that. Of course, that is true for many churches of all denominations.

Amazing how this church leaves its mark in our memories.